kpr_ep16_juneinterview

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Hey there, listener Zach here.

We are not tackling the topic of "playing to your outs" today; that is being bumped to another time, later, to be determined. But today I am so excited to dive into this interview with Roseville Vault Tour winner, June, who piloted her deck, Becky, to victory. At said Vault Tour. Before we get going, there's some critical moments from June's play at Roseville that will be linked in the description from the Tabletop Royale stream on their YouTube there, some really amazing stuff. That's going to give you some more context for some of the moves we talk about that June's deck, Becky, can do. And of course in winning Vault Tour Roseville, June won an invite to the world championships, which she will be attending. Now, if you are a competitive strategic thinker, you might think, well, the element of surprise is always good at these things. So if June is planning on playing Becky, why would June talk about Becky at length on the podcast, just two and a half months [00:01:00] before worlds. Well, I'm going to read a quick quote from June that, in talking with June ahead, checking June's comfort level with talking about Becky ahead of the world championship. Uh, June said this, honestly, I would rather people start looking at their decks like I look at Becky and push the state of the game forward then when worlds, so let's do it. That is the kind of KeyForge player that June is. And, I'll just tell you now, a little spoiler, that's an indicator that you're going to get a whole lot from us diving deep into kind of a deck tech on, uh, Becky June's deck. And then we dive a lot into what lessons June has taken from practicing Becky and getting better. And how you and me. I can apply that to our own game plan. Let's get sweaty.

[00:02:00] Hello everyone and welcome to KeyForge Public Radio. I am your host, Zach Armstrong. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh, and remember to subscribe on your listening platform that you're on if you haven't already, because, uh, if you weren't subscribed, you weren't gonna see this awesome episode when it dropped, because today, We have a very special guest.

Our guest today, won Vault Tour Roseville, just a few short weeks ago. This is June. Uh, pronouns. She, her known online as Future Self. And June one Vault, Tour Roseville with her deck. Becky "Axel" Jintroflow known as, uh, Becky for short. And if you do a lot of listening to help from future self, uh, podcast run by my dear friends Blake and Sydney, uh, June guested there recently to talk about her experience at Vault Tour Roseville, and consider that a prequel to this episode and cue it up if you haven't already, because we are going to talk about June and Becky and this deck and pilot build my case that KeyForge is a better YuGiOh card [00:03:00] game than YuGiOh. welcome to the show, June.

Hi, Zach. Uh, thanks for having me. I'm so excited.

Of course. Thank you, uh, so much for coming on. I'm excited to talk about, uh, talk about Becky and, uh, your episode over on Help from Future Self with Blake and Sydnee was lovely. Um, and I immediately said, okay, well now, now I . Now I need to have June on over here to talk even more about Becky, uh, even more about Becky.

So I appreciate your, uh, willingness to jump on and talk about this, this, uh, awesome deck and your experience with it.

Oh yeah, I think it's a great idea. My episode of Help from Future Self was like, uh, fun and amazing, but also like sprawling and . We talked about everything under the sun. It was great. Um,

Oh yes, it's very good. Very good episode. Uh, so Becky, Becky is, is, uh, the deck you've just won a Vault Tour with, which is really exciting. So we're gonna introduce, we're gonna introduce, uh, the listeners to Becky. Becky is a mass mutation deck, [00:04:00] Shadows Logos and Star Alliance. And June, what are some of the first things our listeners might notice looking at Becky's deck list?

Um, the first thing I always get is, uh, people are like, oh, triple crons. Nice.

Mm-hmm.

Um, now if you're looking on like decks of KeyForge of the master Vault, you'll see that one of those Kronos has, uh, two drop hips on it. Um, which is a huge boon, just like instant payoff, you know? Um, it means you always have that those draws when you need them.

other things you'll notice are that, uh, other people notice the borrow, um, tends to sort of like mess with a lot

of game plans, especially

once you're start accelerating a deck so that you're playing the cards multiple times. Having one borrow means that like . Suddenly their entire artifact game plan is at is at risk.

Right, right. 'cause you keep, keep repeating that card. Um . For anybody who might've joined since mass

mutation. Uh, Chronus is a

[00:05:00] three power mutant and it enhances two drop hips into the deck. I'm sure you've seen those in winds of exchange and the text on it. Pretty simple, but very powerful. It says, after you resolve a drop card bonus icon, you may.

Archive a card. And so having a draw card bonus icon or multiple, uh, land on krons itself is pretty huge. 'cause you're playing krons. That passive text is in effect already. And so you get to draw and then archive after you resolve, uh, resolve that bonus icon. So having three krons in the deck, one that's already enhanced, and then a bunch of other draw enhancements in the deck means you're gonna be archiving a lot with Becky.

Mm-hmm. and "Borrow" is, uh, another

card from Mass Mutations. A Shadows action allows you to steal an artifact and makes it a Shadows artifact. So since you're stealing a ready artifact, usually it's ready and in the house you're in, so you tend to be able to use them too. It's, uh, highly impactful. Um, I'd say the LA Oh yeah.

That's just, that's just, so, I was just going to [00:06:00] borrow is just so strong

There was, there's an old codis,

uh, an old COTA card called s Sneklifter that

was like a little more balanced because it said, steal an enemy artifact if it doesn't belong to one of the three houses on your identity card, move it to Shadows, which is like already a good boon to make sure it's usable in your deck.

But bar was like, no, we don't care if it's in your other houses. Just go ahead and make it shadow so you can use it right now. Like, it's, it's so good. It's so good.

Um, I'd say the last thing that people notice about this stack, or, or maybe the first, depending on who you are, is that it's, uh, currently rated at 78 SaaS on decks of KeyForge, which means it's, um, not a competitive deck.

Sure, sure. Yeah. That, that would certainly be the, um, the, the general community context of looking at numbers and saying what could top eight a Vault Tour a 78. Now we've seen a couple 78 shout out to, uh, magic Duck, who I hung out at Philly with, made top eight with a 70 something deck. But generally speaking, you're [00:07:00] absolutely right.

People will look at it, go 78, eh, you're not gonna do anything crazy with this. Right.

Yeah. Not true.

Yeah, not true at all.

no.

Yeah. The more, the more sets come out and the more, the more things, uh, the more things like Becky happen, hopefully the, the wider, uh, the wider that range of, you know, what could possibly top eight, uh, a Vault Tour.

A Vault, Tour becomes, right. Um, so those are the things people notice. And so June, what's, what's unique, I know every deck is unique, right? Quote unquote, but, uh, to you, June, from, from Your Seat as the pilot of Becky, what is unique about Becky?

It is really tough 'cause I. So many of the lessons I draw from Becky are applicable to other decks.

Um, but I suppose what's unique about Becky is that she bursts in all three houses, right?

Okay.

Um, I. So you've got Logos bursts with, um, [00:08:00] like repeating Let Logic or using Metagenic serum. Um, you've got Shadows bursts by, you know, one last job stealing five aember, or you've got star lines bursts.

Um, you know, sometimes you're just jamming a few, uh, upgrades and you make four, six aember and other times you, um, play all those upgrades multiple times and you make 24 aember.

That's, that's, that's, uh, that's a lot of aember to make. Um, yeah. Bursting, being able to, to burst like crazy in every house is, um, that is, that is a very strong threat from a deck, right? You can do it in any house if people are, you know, if you've got, um, But if they're trying to shenanigan eyes, you right.

With, uh, uh, playing around with what houses you can play. I mean, sometimes they'll still, you know, shut a deck down, but being able to burst in any house, whatever your situation is, that's, um, that's a strong position, strong position to [00:09:00] be in.

Yeah. It's made stronger by the fact that it has a, uh, I would say like nearing like a critical mass of efficiency. Right. Um, like efficiency, like kind of improves your other cards, right? And if your other cards are also efficiency, , you're reaching a point where like you're, you're not just, um, you don't just have speed, you have acceleration, right?

Yeah, sure,

Um,

sure. That that speed multiplying, multiplying itself, especially between the pure draw efficiency you have here in Becky, and then also the archiving, which uh, Lets you not just take cards and keep cards in your hand, but str strategically stash cards away for whatever your big move is gonna be later.

And that's a, that's a pretty critical combination. Like, like you said, it starts to reach a critical mass.

Yes. Because what that combined with having burst in all three houses means that potentially you're sorting. [00:10:00] I used to joke, um, and this is kind of still how I play Becky, that um, I. Becky is broken because she sorts her cards into three separate piles,

What?

the course of a game.

I love that. What are, what are the three piles? Becky sorts her cards into

Um, so when I first started playing, it was Shadows in the archives, um, Star, Alliance and uh, the hand or Discard, and then Logos on the board.

Okay. Okay. That's fantastic.

Uh, so Shadows in the archive, uh, that sounds like that's probably playing, uh, mainly towards that one last job

play. If you're

unfamiliar with one last job, uh, rare Shadows action, it says, purge each friendly Shadows creature.

Steal one aember for each creature. Purge to this way. No alpha no, anything like that. You can just play cards exhausted, purge them. Um, and then that's another kind of efficiency if Becky wants to start, uh, looping cards, right.

it also has a

no [00:11:00] Shadows. Oh, and the one last job has a draw pip. Okay. That's, uh, that's pretty great.

That's pretty great. So you've got the, the Logos on the board. So that looks like, uh, three Cronus. There's a dino butt a month, uh, a dino butt. Wow. There's some dino butt. Those, those are the kinds of things that in editing, I'm like, oh, that might stay in, um, uh, a dino butt, a munching at quick. So, and a Titan engineer. There are, it looks like there's a, there's four draw pips on, uh, spread out on all these creatures.

You've got one on the fission bloom, on the fission bloom as well. Um, and then your Star Alliance, you've got, uh, three, three draw pips, uh, three draw pips as well. So you've talked about these, these piles that you, I. You kind of learned about how Becky wants to sort her cards. Uh, what, when, when you opened Becky and started playing with Becky, what did your early play experiences look like?

As you started to discover all these things Becky wanted to and could do?

Um, [00:12:00] so some may know that I opened Becky in a, a four person sealed pod. And so I played three games with Becky. And I think in those three games I called Shadows maybe twice. Um, were my early play experiences was just like, oh, this, this shadow's house is terrible. I'm ow it away. You know? That was, that was the idea.

And like for the most part, like half the guards are quite bad. Um,

Sure.

um, I. But, uh, so those experiences were, um, just archive as much as I can and try to try to only archive Shadows, um, or, you know, say Starlines cards I maybe didn't wanna see, but often I would just keep 'em around. Um, and that proved to be quite powerful.

Like I even at that point, I was joking with my friends, like, oh, Becky's, . Like 78 SaaS. But like, we'd be talking about like borrowing decks or [00:13:00] potentially like, um, doing like six deck formats, like hack a and like which decks are we gonna bring? And they'd wanna list everything in archetypes. I'm like, I don't know if, uh, Becky is just, Becky just wins games.

Like, that's that's the archetype.

right.

Um, And, uh, a lot of my early experiences were just, um, trying to maximize efficiency and yeah, like sort out cards, get myself to two houses and then just use that efficiency to close out a close out a game.

Right. Right. So, uh, that sounds like it's, it's one of Becky's win conditions, right? Archive an entire house and use, use the other two houses. What, what do Becky's kind of win conditions? What do Becky's win conditions look like? Like how does Becky, uh, close out a game? Once you've used your efficiency, you've set yourself up, what's, what's the, what's the winning move or what are some of the winning moves that Becky can pull off?

There are several, uh, turns out, um, [00:14:00] I think I've started to characterize Becky as having four or five different game plans.

Wow.

Um, and those are mainly different archiving strategies. Um, but like they tend to be better or worse for different, um, finishing moves, as you would call 'em.

Yeah, I like to use as much, um, like classic anime fight terminology in my KeyForge terminology as I can

yeah. Um, so yeah, that first one, the classic was just, yeah, you can stow away your Shadows forever. And then burst, I think it was 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 aember, and five or six aember stolen. Um, Which is a good burst. It's pretty, it's pretty decent burst

Yeah, I, I'd say, I'd say

Um, [00:15:00] so that tends to be a wind condition. Um, just, just huge swing.

Um, enough to, you know, it's like almost a three key key swing. Um, And so that, that tends to be quite powerful. And if you time it right or, uh, wait certain things out, like, um, types of, uh, amper control that might deal with 11 aember or gained, um, then it's just, it's almost, you know, from an equal position, it's, it's It is not easy to deal with.

Um, the, uh, second wind condition I found was, Um, archiving cards away. And then, um, using the, well, honestly, just as the, the second thing I found was that I could reduce my deck down enough so that I could play let logic almost every turn.

Mm. [00:16:00]

which meant that with visions bloom, I'm gaining four aember every turn.

Oh. 'cause that Let Logic comes with a pip by default, and then is enhanced with one in Fission Bloom, the artifact. That'll double those. Bonus pips for sure.

Yeah. And as we know from Treasure Map or Commune, like sometimes gain four is just good enough. Um, plus I get to do other stuff like archive with Auto Vac or, you know, yeah. Uh, I methodological draws a cart in Logos. Right. Um, so that proved to be quite good, just like a, uh, a steady, powerful aember gain.

Um, It's another plan it has. Um, turns out Mutagenic serum is really good with um, I think it's 4, 5, 6, 7 mutants. Um, you know, seven MUS is not a lot for mutants as far as we know in like mass mutations. But reaping for [00:17:00] five or six extra aember is certainly worth an artifact.

Yes,

yes, I, the artifact mutagenic serum and then, uh, SV three Lander from Wind of Exchange, um, are cards that I never see. A whole lot of buzz around in online spaces, but then you get absolutely smashed by a mutant board that gets to be used two or three turns in a row to just reap out for check every turn.

And it's the same thing with SV three lander. If you, you know, don't blow up that, uh, that token board, they're just getting to use them in back to back turns. So yeah, those, those artifacts carry a lot of value and I could, I could see that being the case here for sure.

Yeah, really powerful. If I'm allowed to keep the board. Um, you know, even Metagenic Serum for Two Creatures makes it, you know, a three aember gain, which is a good card. You know, we like

No, that's a very good

Yeah. ,

that's a good

that's a, yeah, that, that's a very good, that's some very good math where, um, there's, you know, other, other games that are a [00:18:00] little more, uh, specific and quantitative with their, their card values. Right. And you can talk about above rate, below rate, uh, especially in things like flesh and blood.

You can do a little bit of math and. Call a card, good or bad, kind of off the cuff at least, uh, just based on its math, but looking at the mutagenic serum math where it comes with a pip. And if it gets you two more aember, that's three aember for, for one card. Uh, and with Omni there's very little setup cost, right?

Uh, just getting those, getting, uh, mutants to, to stick to the board. So that's awesome.

Mm-hmm. . So in that plan I tend to, uh, um, it actually has affected all of my plans. I tend to, uh, archive my ants last just 'cause it's like I get a little bit of extra, um, extra ability. Like, or when I'm like playing a creatures, they are the ones I'll be able to, to house sheet with.

Got it. Yep. That makes a lot of sense.

Um,

a lot of sense.

one of those lessons that took a while to, [00:19:00] learn if it was worth it and to learn when it's worth it.

Right. Um, I would say the, what is that? Two, two plans. Three plans. The, or three wing conditions. The fourth wing condition is, uh, let logical loops within the same turn. Um, And so you can fission bloom the first Let Logica gain four aember. Uh, if you've got no deck then, or like, or if you draw through your entire deck with, let Logica

you play a drop pit, maybe draw it.

If you have no deck, you definitely draw it. Um, play another drop pit, draw it, uh, reap with dinova. Draw it again. Um,

Nice

Often playing for 2, 3, 4 times in a row

Okay.

same turn, which is, uh, including fission Bloom, generally about like six eight aember.

Wow.

Nice. Is a, is a good, good wing condition and

you can do it again.

for sure.

Yeah. [00:20:00] Um, I would say the, um,

The fourth wind condition I found was, um, was actually very similar. It is kind of the same thing. Um, it was just, uh, I found a, perhaps a better way to do it, um, using my creatures with drop hips like Titan engineer, um, and Cronus with a, um, with bouncing death cork. So if you, if you think Let Logica Krons with two drop Hips Titan engineer, that's four drop hips on three cards

Yeah.

and or, uh, four draws on three cards 'cause let Logic draws.

Um, and then bouncing death chord is your fourth chord. So you just kind of can go infinite if you draw them in the right order.

Right,

As long as you draw your krons before the B D Q, [00:21:00] you'll, you'll loop.

Okay.

time. So

that is very cool.

it's basically a 50 50, um, to lube again and again and again. But you always get to do it at least twice, which is great.

Um,

Wow,

I've, uh, generally I expect to do it about four or five times.

Sure,

Um,

sure.

that is where, um, Becky was when I went to Philly. Um, now I was also aware that there was. The ability to rule of six in Star Alliance.

Okay.

However, it was kind of just a thing that happened when you had already won the game and all your cards were in your hand, right?

Sure, sure.

Um,

of a win, more move.

yeah, bit of a win, more move. And also like, at that point I was still playing burst plans, still pushing for, for keys at the same pace as my opponent,

Mm-hmm.

right? Um, it happened maybe . One in [00:22:00] 20 games,

Sure.

less. Um, and then fairly happened. I, um, you know, I missed my round and things happened and, uh, I didn't move on the, in there.

But, um, I went home and I did what I would always do to make myself feel better. I played Becky and, I was like, okay, she's still great. I played, um, a game called Slay the Spire, which I have, um, played a lot. It's, I played a lot before. I probably have a, I don't know how many hours, but, um, in Slay the Spire.

Um, So Aspire is a computer, um, deck building, roguelike game. So every, every run, which is maybe about like an hour of play, um, you are crafting a deck, sometimes making it worse, sometimes making it better, sometimes improving your cards, um, to get to the end. Um, and [00:23:00] uh, over . Uh, as, as you progress, you go through what are called the ascensions and basically increase the difficulty and at higher difficulties, you start to find that, um, you know, like thinning your deck and, uh, having like a true game plan for every card in your deck and like what a turn looks like starts to be to become necessary.

Right? And not only that, but planning for . Like what comes next? 'cause you know that certain enemies pop up on certain floors or you can tell what the boss is that you're gonna fight and you know what they're gonna need. You're gonna need to deal with them.

Right, right.

And I started to think about that in the context of Becky and I said, okay, what if I start crafting my deck throughout the game, um, to, uh, To, to make it so that like, I never actually want to pick up my archives.

I'm not archiving my good cards ever, ideally. [00:24:00] Um, and, um, that, uh, that resulted in something I called the cant, Tripp Zoia for one,

Uh,

uh, which is just, uh, not, not, not truly that, but um, Kind of just ridiculous. It's where every card in my deck draws a card, you know? Right. Uh, you reach a point where it's like you just, you just do a ton of stuff every turn.

Um, that was, that was really good. Um, and, you know, so you could keep a couple cards, uh, in your deck that, um, were like, key against your opponent. Say your opponent has a bunch of artifacts, you know, you keep borrowing there or you keep lights out in there. Um, and if you're keeping lights out, you probably keep the look over there so you can, you know, steal a little bit on the same turns and deal a little bit more damage.

Yeah. Yeah. But it sounds like the, the, the game plan with this kind of slay, the spire [00:25:00] move is to just archive everything, like you said, everything that's not drawing, so that every turn, you're just always drawing and always hitting gas no matter what.

Yeah. It's something a lot of people try to do in inside Aspire is like, go infinite, right? And I was like, that's cool. That's fun. Um, it also like the idea of, you know, over the course of a game, uh, inside Aspire, like a run planning for what comes next and making your deck like work for that. Right. And, um, So it made me start thinking about picking in a whole new way.

Um, like really start thinking through my archives a lot, a lot stronger. I stopped archiving single house at that point. Started like archiving across houses, um, a lot more,

Yeah.

um, just because, yeah, I'm trying to archive my bad parts away.

Um,

like, and, and 'cause I'm an avid, slay the spire player as well, and you start with a very small deck. What Becky is kind of a, an an [00:26:00] inverse where you're starting with a 36 card deck and . The abundance of archives, uh, just lets you take cards out.

Yeah.

uh, as as you can, can choose what to take out as the game goes on for, uh, towards some end game plan, mostly based around draw and like you said, keeping just whatever, whatever answer you want to hold onto.

I love that.

Yeah. And I don't know why I'd never made that connection before. Um, like I have so many hours in play, the Spire, I have so many hours in KeyForge. I never thought like, oh, let's play like this. Um, I guess I just have enough experience with Becky knowing that like, there's a lot of different things you can do with her.

Like, let's, let's see if we can do this one. And like, first game, like I reached like the cant Trip Zoia, which was, I don't, I don't know, it just seemed fun to like be able to draw a card with every card. Um, And I realized that like going for towards that plan [00:27:00] also accelerated the deck enough that I could reduce my deck to the point where that Star Alliance infinite, which, um, I'll describe for our viewers who don't know, um, listeners who don't know is, uh,

Involves, uh, armory Officer Nell, which is a Star Alliance creature, which, uh, enhances with a drop hip. Anytime

an an upgrade enters play, the owner of Armoring officer now draws a card.

Um, It uses that with a series of, uh, upgrades. Um, I believe three unique upgrades. Uh, blast shielding, access denied, and, um, observe umax. There's also a explorer over that doesn't give you aember, so I don't like that one. Um, by playing all three of those on, uh, a creature, you gain three aember and draw three cards.

Now if you use a card like, Hey, drunk Collision, for [00:28:00] example, um, then you potentially destroy that creature sending it and all of its upgrades into your discard. And it has drop PEPs, so you also draw a card. Um, so it is self, it is self-sufficient as well. Um, and, um, but then you're, you're stuck, right? Like you're, your upgrades in the discard.

And so is your hit collision. Um, Except that I have another action in Starlines that also has a drop pep, which is Xeno training.

Mm-hmm.

Xeno training, um, gains you an aember and allows you to capture one for each house, uh, of creature you control. So I. In addition to being able, being an action that draws me back in, does let me play on another vector while I'm doing this.

So it allows me to am control aember and gains me a bit more too, um, while I loop this. So I, with that card loop back into the, [00:29:00] those cards I just discarded, uh, all those upgrades. Um, so the practical effect of which is that, I can destroy six three powered creatures Gain 24 aember and capture between six and 18 aember

Wow,

Um, yeah, it's.

is, is, is this the move that, uh, I was while I was watching the Rose to, uh, Roseville Vault Tour online? I think, and I'm sure this has started with you, but calling this Zoia, was this the, it was this specifically the Zoia move

or is one of the sev This is it. Excellent.

Excellent. And what, uh, for our listeners who perhaps did not grow up, Um, uh, watching Yugi on their Saturday mornings.

What is Zoia from Yugi? The TV show and card game.

Uh, so Zoia from Yugi is um, is a series of five cards. [00:30:00] There are different pieces of Zoia who's like some forbidden God, I

think, um, They're terrible. They're just like, they don't do anything really, except if you play all five out on the, on the same board, then you just, you just win the game. It just says you win the game.

Right.

right, right. Like on the cards, right? It's not like you do a bunch of damage, it just says you win

Yeah.

And yeah, and so looking at this as exotic with like finding your five pieces and putting them all together and then, uh, you know, winning fruit, you know, mechanics and gaining aember and stuff. But that is a very fun comparison, a very fun comparison.

Yeah. So yeah, there's exactly five cards that are required for it, um, which are the HR collisions, you know, training in those three upgrades. Um, that also means you need to have five cards left in your deck to do it. This is me tipping my hat off for a little. People don't like to do math,

Sure.

um, but having five cards in your deck allows, allows you to do it or discard.

Um, [00:31:00] Um, now there's another piece to it. Um, daughter, uh, comes in help. Um, I have a daughter Maverick into Star Alliance that comes with a damage pip and a drop pip, which means that in cases where I need it can play into rule of six 'cause it is also self-sufficient. Um, In a case where my opponent doesn't play any creatures 'cause they know about Zoia, I can play the daughter and that becomes the targets of the, of the Hadron collision.

right.

Um, so I don't even need my enemy to have a board 'cause that would actually be a problem. Otherwise, especially if I, you know, people start knowing that victims are playing around that.

Right

Um, Uh, it also comes with a damage pip, so that means four power creatures on my enemy's board are now also targets, um, potentially five power creatures.

If I get a couple loops in, um, yeah, it open. That opens up a lot of possibilities as well.

Yeah. That's fantastic. And [00:32:00] I love, I love that your inspiration for kind of finding the new loop, right? The new end game here came especially from Slay the Spire because, uh, are you familiar with the, um, I. It's the kind of six degrees of separation thing. Are you familiar of, uh, how Slay the Spire and KeyForge are connected through a couple of those?

No.

So, slay The Spire is created by, uh, one of the co-creators is Anthony, uh, Giovanetti, who goes by stem Hacked online stem. Hacked is both the name of his, uh, blog and I believe podcast for the card game Android net runner.

Okay. Yeah.

Yes, Android net Runner. So a big, uh, so Anthony, a big, um, you know, uh, content creator presence in the Android net runner community made sleigh the spire, you know, out of his love for, for card games and of course Android net runner published by F F G uh, a and that ended [00:33:00] a few years before.

Uh, a few years before KeyForge, before KeyForge came onto the scene through F F G, so there's a bit of a , there's a bit of a card game, card game world connection there through, through Hacked and Anthony.

And KeyForge and Net Runner are both designed by Andrew Garfield. Yep.

That's right. Yes. Yes, that's right. Uh, yeah. Both designed by Richard Garfield. You can hardly throw a deck box across the room without hitting a card game designed by Richard Garfield, and at least it's first or second iteration, these days.

Far as I know, the amazing Spider-Man actor has not made a card game. I apologize for saying Garfield.

you're not the first person to, uh, to accidentally say Andrew Garfield. And the funny thing is, I, I used to have a Richard Garfield Google Alert and Andrew Garfield, the actor, his father is Richard Garfield. Not the card game designer, is simply the, the father of , the actor

So lots of, uh, lots of fun cross wires there for Spider-Man and [00:34:00] card games. So, um, so I, I love that, that is, um, a fantastic, a, a fantastic learning process for Becky. Even going back and thinking again about how to use that efficiency and what to aim towards, like what is, what is, uh, you know, what is a, a ideal deck state look like and how to get there. So from, from your experiences June, which turned into a Vault Tour win, practicing with Becky and then taking another look at Becky even after Philadelphia, before Roseville, um, how would you encourage other KeyForge players to look at their deck, maybe using a mindset or principles you use to learn on Becky so that they can, that they can unlock that next level of a deck they're playing.

What, how would you encourage them to go about that?

like, continue to like reassess like your strengths, especially in things you have agency over, right? Um, things like when you hold cards, um, uh, when you [00:35:00] archive cards, what kind of cards you're archiving, um, the way you're handcrafting. These things are all kind of unique deck to deck.

Um, And it just requires practice. Like I, I've talked about this, but um, specifically I don't re consider a deck playable until I've played it 50 times,

um, .

Sure.

which is like pales in comparison to how much I've played Becky. But like, that's because she's, she rules. But,

Right.

you know, I don't think every deck is capable of, um, the kind of like

Exacting, like a branching path that Becky is. I think there are many decks that are, um, I think cards like Ultra Gravitron and now strange Shells auto encoder. Um, all do things like that. And um, you know, we see people playing those cards, pulling their [00:36:00] archives. Um, but you know, we've also seen people like.

Ramp up and accelerate, like I said, using ultra gravitron to just play it over and over again. Um, so there's certainly decks with, um, the possibility of reaching game plans similar to Becky's, but I think just every deck, um, you know, you play into, if you play into enough different kinds of matchups, you start to just understand what you're supposed to do.

Um, when you sit across the table from a and you start inspecting somebody's archon card. Um, and that's really it. Like, um, I don't practice too much against what people would call, like, you know, Vault, Tour winning decks, you know, the big, the big ones. The ones that people, uh, dare not speak the name of, uh, for figure facing them in round one. Um,

right.[00:37:00]

I don't practice too much against those. I, I mean, know if I run into 'em, you know, I'll play 'em for sure. I'm not gonna turn that down, but, um, I find the most joy in facing new people on, um, the Crucible and getting new experiences of totally different decks. Um, 'cause that's the thing about KeyForge is you never really know what to expect, especially with decks that you haven't played.

Um, you know, like just seeing how much a deck that I have played has changed. Like certainly there is something. Unexpected that can happen across the table and getting like a breadth of experiences, um, you know, teaches you what to look out for. Like, that's truly the, the, the best way, I think is just to learn what your deck does and doesn't like.

We will learn, um, At what point are you too far behind to ever catch up? Uh, um, like for me, that's, that was an incredibly [00:38:00] important point. Like I talked about, uh, this with my friend Met Ops where yeah, I made zoia, but like, that didn't, didn't mean I could like put the deck down and then go to Roseville and win.

Um, because having a powerful tool, having a secret weapon, um, is actually worse if you don't know when to use it.

Wow.

Um,

Wow.

I think, 'cause if you're just trying to do the crazy long game plan, every time you'll get stuck. You won't get there. It's just, it takes practice to learn how much tempo you need and, um, You know, to assess.

So I find myself assessing with Becky every game, every turn. Like, can I hold my archives? Uh, can I ever reach, uh, like the five cards in, in hand and discard, um, by the end of this game? And if not, then I have to start reassessing [00:39:00] how I'm archiving. Right? And I think there are similar lessons you can learn with your deck game plan and how far behind you are on tempo.

And those are things you can learn. Best learn by practice and just the breadth of experience.

Amazing, amazing. I loved what you started off with there. And then expounded upon with the practicing a lot, uh, can, uh, continue to continue to assess your strengths, especially the ones you have. Agency over. Right. That is, you know, that speaks to, to some critical thinking and like reflection time on saying, you know, what did this deck do?

What did it not do? How did my choices affect it? Because one of the biggest lessons for me is I grew as a player.

Mm-hmm.

Was instead of saying, oh, I just didn't get the cards I needed, that's why I lost. I moved on from that. I thought that way for a while and I moved on from that and said, well, what if I had held a card [00:40:00] here or what if I hadn't held that card because I was just tempted by this two card combo I knew was in there, which isn't even a secret weapon, and was still ruining.

My games, right? 'cause I didn't know how to even use a two card combo.

exactly.

Um, and how can, how can you say, okay, was this truly a loss where it just, it wasn't winnable. Maybe it was, it was sealed. Especially, it just wasn't winnable. But having that be a thought, you only rest on and arrive to that. It wasn't winnable.

Once you have thoroughly pressure tested everything, you had agency over.

Right. Everything you had agency over and that's how you're gonna get to that next level. Um, and one of my absolute favorite things about KeyForge is that so many of my decks, if not most of my decks perhaps right. Um, I am not good enough either at KeyForge or that deck specifically to play it to its maximum potential yet.

Right? And that is the most exciting thing. I purchased a deck on the secondary market and was [00:41:00] talking with an acquaintance about it, and they said, Oh, I saw that deck and I didn't buy it because there's too complicated. The skill ceiling's too high. And I went, that's why I purchased it,

because every time I pick up this deck, I know I can learn something and get better, and it's gonna be such a complicated decision tree that like I have.

Not technically infinite, but a almost unknowably vast amount of decisions I can make with this deck. It's a dark tidings deck with a whole lot of wacky archive and recursion and, and you know, evil twin, which of the dawn and double forgive or forget,

um, it is just

an insane. An insane amount of branching paths just based on those, uh, four cards in the deck, right?

So, um, I, I love that. Continue to assess your strengths, especially the ones you have a lot of agency over. Um, and then having a secret weapon. Having a secret weapon, uh, is gonna be a bad thing if you don't know how to use it, because you're just gonna be distracted by the fact you have a secret weapon.[00:42:00]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I really like what you said about um, . Being interested in the deck because it could teach you things. And I think that was something I felt in KeyForge really early, um, identified in, in the first set that Mars was my first house in that set. My, uh, favorite house in that set.

I.

And, uh, I had played good bars and I couldn't really identify what it was. I mean, we're all new to the game, what it was that made those pods tick. Um, and so I started buying decks and I just, you know, things that looked interesting.

Um, and I treated each one as, you know, another lesson. Until I ended up on, um, you know, my first keyboards love steadfast stone pilot, uh, which is a deck that goes crazy with brainstem antenna and John Smith and just reaps for 18.

It's

Right .Love it. Love it.

um, and I think, you know, [00:43:00] starting to. Treat decks as things that not only make you better at playing them, but better at playing KeyForge, um, you know, has a lot of value. I think Becky has made me better at KeyForge, not just Becky

wow. Wow. And now you and Becky have won a Vault Tour together. Vault, Tour Champions, June and Becky

Yeah.

Maybe the last thing I would say is that the decks that you buy and think are like that look crazy. It looks look incredible. Um, and then you play them and they're wonky and janky and you said, oh, it's actually not as good as I thought. Play those decks again. Please, for the love of God, play those decks again.

Those are the, those are the decks that will teach you. Those are the decks that . Have lessons for you. Those are the decks that are way better than you're giving them credit for. Um, there's this deck I, um, am really interested in. I probably won't end up with it, [00:44:00] but it's an auto encoder deck, um, with a ton of drop hips everywhere, but it's only forms of aember control are two Anthony's and

where

yeah. Where those Anthonys are and like specifically destroying your own Anthony. So, um, that you can refresh it and get to the next one when you need to. Um, it's so strange and important. The first time I played the deck I was like, oh, I just can't. I just can't interact with my opponent most times.

But, um, you know, you start to learn like, oh, how am I what? Like what do I want my archives? How do I manage these, these two tools I have? Uh, once I have like incredible control over my deck. Yeah.

Yeah, that, I think that's such a picture of, of having a deck that's, you know, probably pretty good or you see some promise in it or it's just exciting and then you go, oh, this is weird. And it didn't work. So it's now not good. But like you said, I didn't even think about [00:45:00] it, when to blow up your own Anthony, which, uh, if you're unfamiliar, just six power, uh, star lines creature that captures all your opponent's, aember when it's played and then slowly drips it back to your opponent.

And like knowing when to blow it up so you could cycle it later. I, I hadn't even, as you said to Anthony's, I'm like, oh yeah, that's not a lot, but you'd have to know when to blow it up so that you could then go get it back later. And that takes such, such just foresight and just learning what, what do I need later in the game and how do I, how do I prep for that now?

Yeah, and I think foresight is something, you know, Um, foresight is thought, becomes foresight, becomes instinct. You know, just keep training, keep practicing and like, like it'll take you less time to make those decisions. Uh, you know, I find myself again, like those, those practice games help me to get through Swiss so I could get to the, um, the finals and I had, that's [00:46:00] where I had infinite time and I could play my best.

right.

But, um, learning how to manage your time comes with practice for sure. There are a lot of decks I would love to play, um, in tournaments, but I think are too slow. But that's because I haven't practiced them enough.

right.

Yeah.

For sure.

For sure. Awesome. June will, thank you, uh, so much for coming on K p r. Really appreciate, appreciate your time and your willingness to, to dive into, to Becky and, and everything Becky has taught you. I think that was one of my favorite things to talk with you about, just talking about how a deck can teach us more about the deck and KeyForge, and then you go and then you go to other decks.

I'm feeling a little inspired myself to go back to, I opened a a, a very good . Winds of exchange deck with prospector and some other stuff that I played it, and it was exactly what you said. I'm like, this is weird. This is janky. It doesn't exactly have these tools and uh, you've just, I had the [00:47:00] thought, but you repeated it and convinced me.

I'm like, no, I just need to practice that deck more because i's probably more to unlock, there's probably more to unlock with that thing.

probably every puzzling trinket deck in the world. Uh,

Oh my

gosh,

also, yeah.

That the, yeah, the, the, the three or four decisions that you could make every time you play a pip gets pretty crazy.

Gets pretty crazy. Just the variety of things you can do.

yeah.

Awesome. June, thank you so much. I'm, uh, so excited, uh, to, uh, to see you at Worlds and I'm sure all of our listeners will be, we'll be rooting for you at Worlds with that rcon invite that you've got, uh, in just a few short months.

Gosh, we're just over,

uh, I think it's two and a half months away from Key Four's First World Championship. That is super exciting and I am, I am brilliantly happy that you have a, you have a spot in that world championship and can't wait to see how you do

Well, I hope to put on a show. At least let's have fun there, you know?[00:48:00]

I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will.

Alright. Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.

Thank you so much for joining us today here on KeyForge public radio, dear listener. Thank you so much to everybody who supports us on Patrion, especially our AirWave advocate level supporters like Paul Roadrunner. Uh, don't forget to check out the KeyForge public radio website for everything KeyForge and KeyForge public radio. We've got the blog episodes, the merch store, everything like that. And like your radio dial. KeyForge skills always be well-tuned.

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